Should You Build An App For Your Brewery? - Interview with Ross Stensrud of Tapwyse

Episode Overview

In this interview, we are speaking with Ross Stensrud, Co-Founder of TapWyse. His company builds apps for breweries that add revenue streams and improve customer communication. We’ve had the chance to see the data for ourselves and speak with Ross on multiple occasions about the work TapWyse is doing – we like what we see! So we asked Ross onto the show to answer questions about what apps can really do for your brewery and things you should consider when building one.

Learn more about TapWyse at www.tapwyse.com and connect with Ross at ross@tapwyse.com.


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Intro/Outro Music by ComaStudio from Pixabay 

Episode Transcript

(AI-Generated, please forgive any typos)

[00:00:00] Chris: What is up? Welcome to the Get Optimized podcast. This is a show all about craft beer, marketing, growth, and all the things we really like about running our craft beer business. And this is your host, Chris Overlay of Get Optimized. So welcome, welcome, welcome. So I got a fun one for you today. And it's been one that really has been in the making for Um, and I want to give you the background on how this came to be and why we're even having this, this episode in this interview.

So, in short, this is going to be an interview with Ross Stensrud. He is a co founder of Tapwise, and they are a company that builds apps for breweries. And so, you know, here's the background. So, you know, rewind the clock, uh, as far back a year ago, year or so ago. Um, if you listen to some of my webinars, you've been to presentations I've given, uh, maybe listened, there's some mentions of this kind of stuff on the podcast.

I've been pretty cautious about apps in general. And my reasoning is that, you know, they're, they're pretty expensive usually. Historically from what I've priced out there, you know, also I'm like, where is the value here? You know, why is someone going to download an app and all these questions you ask yourself?

It's like well, where is this? Where's the return on investment for these things? So anyways over the last year Uh, I have gotten the chance to get to know Ross and his company and uh, he's been like man We're doing great work. We're doing great work and uh, You know rewind the clock now to cbc This year in vegas in april You Um, I say we rewind, fast forward the clock, you know, keep up with the timeframe here.

Um, fast forward the clock to April of this year, and tap Wise had a booth, I got a chance to, to sit down with Ross and he got, he showed me some of the data that, you know, they got for, you know, the clients they, they've built these apps for. And, you know, the, the data he's showing me is, is literally how they are making money for breweries, leveraging the app and the functionality that they're.

Able to give breweries via the app and I was blown away by what I saw, you know, I Legit stuff. I mean they're ROIing returning on investment very very quickly With the cost in comparison to the cost it takes to get these apps started up their pricing model is pretty darn good by comparison and You know, everything I'm seeing is looking great I mean, I would not have believed it if I didn't see the, the, the The data firsthand with Ross.

So now fast forward the clock again, about a month ago, you know, I was having a conversation with Ross about some stuff and I was like asking him questions. I'm like, you know, we need to just do this interview on the podcast. That would be amazing. I can ask you a lot of these questions. I'd love to share your thoughts and your answers with our audience.

Cause I know that. Y'all are having some of the similar questions. You hear an app and you're like, well, What's this gonna cost me? What are the benefits? So on and so forth. So let's get it straight from the horse's mouth, as they say, and uh, talk to Ross. And I try to do the best I could to ask him questions I think you would want to ask.

So hopefully you do get some value from that. I will also say that I think what Tapwise is doing is really solid. I think Ross is a great dude So I encourage you to go check out their stuff I'll put the the website and Ross's contact in the show notes But it's going to be tapwise. com and why is it spelled with a y so it's w y s e tapwise.

com And I will put Ross's email in the show notes as well So you can reach out to him if you got more questions or want to learn more about what they're doing Okay without further delay enough background Let's get you into the interview. Enjoy. All right. Welcome Ross. How you 

[00:04:12] Ross: doing, man? Doing great, Chris.

Uh, thanks for having me today. 

[00:04:16] Chris: Yeah, of course, of course. Um, I'm excited to talk to you. We've been talking for quite a while now. I think we, we met like at CBC, not this year, but the year before. And, yeah, I've been kind of talking back and forth about stuff for a while. Then we, you had the booth this year at CBC and, and we've, Talking more sense and you're doing so many cool things and I've been really slow to kind of get around to the, the app stuff, but you're crushing it.

It's like, all right, we got to have a conversation with Ross and, and really unpack this with an expert like you. So, um, I'm excited, man. Thanks for, thanks for hopping on. 

[00:04:48] Ross: Well, I mean, thank you. I really appreciate it. It's been, it's wild to think that, uh, we met, you know, at that's at CBC two, two CBCs back.

It seems like, uh, just yesterday. 

[00:04:59] Chris: For real. Crazy how time goes. Yeah. Um, well right on. So I guess, uh, you know, Let's let's do the basics, right? Let's tell us a little bit about who you are, you know, and let's, let's go way back and let's learn about Ross, the person here first. So who is Ross? Where do you come from?

Let's get a little personal with you. And then we'll kind of start going into more of the, the business y stuff. 

[00:05:21] Ross: Yeah. Yeah. You bet. Well, um, Yeah, I'm, uh, I'm based in Carlsbad, California, which is just north of San Diego. And, uh, I, you know, I'm, I grew up out here, uh, as well. And I try, I've tried to leave many times, but San Diego is a pretty great place to live.

I, I gotta say. So, um, so yeah, um, a little bit, a little bit of, on me, uh, you know, I, I went to a school out here. Uh, I studied mechanical engineering. Uh, I got a job as a pool designing pool cleaners. Uh, no joke for like nine months. Uh, hated it. Like little 

[00:05:58] Chris: vacuum things that are like sucking on the bottom of the pool 

[00:06:01] Ross: or you got it, man.

They, they swim around, suck up the leaves and everything like that. Um, and, uh, Yeah, I just started, um, you know, kind of doing websites in the background, uh, early on and got into the software, um, as a side hustle and then ended up making a career out of kind of out of that. Um, uh, and, uh, yeah, I mean, we can talk about my journey and how I got into Tapwise, but that's kind of the baseline.

Now for me, uh, you know, I got a family out here, we're in Carlsbad. It's a great beer spot. Uh, wife, two kiddos, 10 and eight, two little boys. It's a lot of fun, a lot of chaos right now. 

[00:06:38] Chris: What do you like to go for a, for beers out there? What's your spot, 

[00:06:42] Ross: man? There's so many good spots out here. I'm I'm no joke about three blocks from pizza port, which is a great spot.

There's also pure project is in the neighborhood. Um, and then if you get a little bit of eat a little bit East of here, uh, my, my spot that is closest to where I work is, uh, called ruler. Brewing company. Uh, there's dog leg brewing company, local roots. Uh, there's a whole slew of options out here. It's a great, great beer town.

No doubt. 

[00:07:09] Chris: There's a few spots around the country where it's like, man, there's just, you know, it's craft beer central and San Diego area is one of 'em. So you're, you're living in craft beer paradise? For sure. 

[00:07:19] Ross: Yeah. Yeah. No, no question. I, uh, I got, I, you know, I grew up, uh, in college there was a World Cup and there was a bar out out here that was, uh.

That's, uh, you know, it was my intro to craft during the world cup. Um, and it is, you know, growing up during the boom was really special. No, no question. 

[00:07:40] Chris: Is that why you got into like craft beer professionally? It's cause you're just like, you know, we're around it and you're like, man, it seems like the cool thing to do.

You know, I'm interested in the industry or what was the, the jump from, from pools and websites to, uh, craft beer eventually? 

[00:07:55] Ross: Yeah. Yeah. No. Uh, I, I have kind of like a, I'd say it was like a series of happy accidents to borrow a term from my, uh, my boy, Bob Ross. Um, but, uh, but no, I, I kind of came at it from a different angle.

I know a lot of people that I've met have gotten into it because they love the brewing part of it and everything like that. I definitely have spent my fair share of time in tap rooms, um, out here. No question. But, um, for me, my journey was a little different. Um, Like I said, I kind of got into websites and I got into apps early on.

Um, uh, you know, about 12, 15 years ago, we started doing something similar to what we're doing with tapwise, but in a couple of different industries. So, um, first in music and then in golf, uh, because we like music and golf, I started a couple of businesses with my, uh, some buddies of mine, um, doing that. And then I decided to, uh, that I liked biking as well.

Um, and so I went off and I, uh, for 10 years, uh, worked for a company called Expresso, uh, which is, uh, love it. They had a really fun and cool product. It was like, uh, a bike that's like playing a video game. So you have an avatar, uh, on the screen, you steer it. It has, you know, you shift it just like you would riding outdoors.

You feel the terrain as you ride. You race people. Super fun. Except that, uh, we picked the wrong market. We were selling into gyms and YMCAs. And so when 2020 hit, um, that was a tough time. And so we held on as long as we could. Uh, ended up, uh, you know, the bank ended up repossessing the business. Uh, we found a buyer for it, which was great.

Cause people got to keep their jobs and I stuck around there for like nine months. And then. Realize that there was going in a different direction and I had kind of, uh, worn out my usefulness, uh, there. And so, uh, for me, I went crawling back to those, uh, those, uh, that golf, uh, my friends who were, you know, had working on the golf apps and on the music apps.

And I, I said, they had grown into, we work with about a thousand golf courses. I said, this is awesome. Let me see if there's a new market that I can, uh, that I can, you know, that could benefit from this. And I was spending a lot of time in tap rooms at the time again, uh, and, uh, it turned out that one of them was launching a mug club.

I said, I think I might have something for you. And I, I built an app for him and, um, built the business plan after that. Cause I thought what we were doing had some, some value in the industry. That's 

[00:10:24] Chris: awesome. It's so funny. The roads we take to, to get where we're at and the, you know, happy accidents, the lessons and things you learn and the pivots that you make.

And um, yeah, then we're here, you know, craft beers full of these kinds of folks say I was doing this and that and the other and similar for me, it was like, I was doing this other thing with marketing and whatever. And then it was like, well, I just want to get into craft beer. This seems like a cool spot and let's see if we can make it work.

And uh, and then here we are. So that's awesome that you share. We're happy you're here. 

[00:10:54] Ross: Well, I'll tell you one thing. I, this industry is so much more fun to work in than fitness. So I'll never be going back. We're so much nicer. I've had so much, you know, uh, so, so much more, uh, the, the experience is so much better, so I love it.

It's been awesome. 

[00:11:14] Chris: It's an awesome place to be. Everyone's chill and nice for the most part. So, uh, that's great. Um, so, I mean, with that in mind, so we're talking craft beer now and thinking about the industry and you kind of have this unique perspective coming from golf and fitness and mechanical engineering and stuff, I mean, what's your thoughts on the, Industry is something I wanted to ask you was like, what are you think is what are some of the biggest trends with the industry right now, maybe specific to marketing and like, especially now that we're kind of in this post COVID world, right?

I think we're, are we burning out the post COVID terminology? Are we finally out of this? We're still kind of reeling from it. But like, what are we, what's on the horizon here? What do you kind of see happening in the industry from your perspective? 

[00:11:56] Ross: Yeah, yeah, no, I, I appreciate the question that, you know, I don't, I'm not going to have any riveting insights into what, you know, drinks are popular or anything like that.

Um, that's all above my pay grade. So, you know, like, uh, the trends, consumer trends, I think I probably are best left to the brewers associations in the world, you know what I mean? Um, so some, but I mean, you know, some of the things that we work on with our customers kind of on the ground floor level, um, and some of the things that we've seen Uh, them doing is, you know, um, a lot of it is focused around kind of new revenue streams, um, things like adding food, um, you know, doing more events to pack the tap rooms, um, music, private event bookings, um, even, you know, on the beverage side of things, offering some, some.

Beverages that are, you know, uh, beyond beer, um, things like that are some of the things that we've seen, um, trending, uh, just with the customers that we've been working with, um, which is a, you know, subset of the market as a whole. Um, uh, and. You know, which I appreciate and the other thing that I'll mention just because it's the world that I live in is memberships and you know One of the things that we've seen is that there's there's been kind of in beer and established model for mug clubs You know the the the mugs on the hooks and things like that One of the things we're seeing is we're seeing that kind of evolve a little bit into Um Kind of different types of rewards.

Um, you know, we work with a brewery that has a golf simulator. So offering time in the simulator as part of their membership program, um, early access to new beer releases, um, you know, uh, just weekly beers, monthly beers, um, kind of things like that. Um, the evolution of the, uh, of the membership program is something that we, we kind of work with and see on a regular basis as well.

Um, and I think part of that is, um, Related to just one more trend that I, you know, kind of want to touch on here is, um, the importance of the direct relationship that you have with your customer, um, and that becoming more important over time. I think that's going to be something that we continue to see.

Um, as the, as the industry evolves, so 

[00:14:19] Chris: no, that's exactly what I wanted to ask you this question. Cause that was my thinking is that, you know, it seems like, uh, the direct lines of communication and the owned lines of communication are becoming increasingly more valuable, especially as like social media and these other marketing channels become more fragmented.

Less desirable in some ways, you know, icky social media stuff. It's like, okay, well, we still have to communicate with people. How are we doing that? And, uh, you know, what is the, what's the, what's the path for that? And what technologies do we have for that? And it's reassuring to hear you say, look, I'm seeing the same things.

We have to figure this out. Uh, and maybe that's a good segue into the conversation about the, the app, because I'm curious what your thought is like where this fits in to the marketing mix, is this a, a tool to differentiate you from other competition? Is it more of a tool to. As a tactical tool to communicate as a bit of both.

I mean, where does, where does the app thing fit in for a, for a brewery and the marketing strategy? 

[00:15:23] Ross: Well, yeah, yeah, no, really good question. I just want to just also just kind of be clear on one thing. Um, what tapwise does is we make. Custom branded apps for breweries. So I just want to be all fair. Yeah.

Yeah. Clear that what we're talking about is not like an untapped where it's one app that has all the breweries in it or anything like that. Um, what we try to work with our customers on and what we think is the right approach, um, for the, for the, um, craft breweries out there is to have your own app. Um, and that allows you, Chris, kind of like what you said to do, which is own that communication, uh, Path with your guests.

Um, you know, so our, um, and, uh, so I think like, it's a great question. Where does that fit into the landscape of all the different marketing that's going on? And you, I'd actually throw that kind of back to you a little bit. Um, cause you, I think have a more comprehensive, take a more comprehensive approach to the marketing side of things, just with like what you said on the social media side and, and, uh, everything like that, uh, you know, I have my, um, Kind of.

Uh, where we land, but you tell me, 

[00:16:33] Chris: well, let me tell you what I think. And then you tell me if it, if it vibes in it for close, 

[00:16:38] Ross: I'm 

[00:16:38] Chris: glad you, you clarified, uh, The difference in apps here in like, this is more fragmented. This is a point about fragmentation is because there's different things, the different definitions of what an app is.

So in part, there's these apps out there like untapped or some of these other ones where it's like, yeah, we can maybe have a profile on there. We can list our items. Um, maybe there's some push notifications that are going out there that we can pay for and, and maybe some ads or something like that we can use.

And then there's. An app that you would develop for your brewery is your app, right? Where you'd have members in there, your push notifications are your push notifications on the app. It's an app that's downloaded onto someone's phone. Um, and, uh, maybe there's other functionalities, e commerce functionality.

There's information on there. You can host info pages about your events. It links out to other stuff, your website, so on and so forth. Um, from like, if I were going to divide those up, I'd say, well, You know, the third party app, the untaps of the world, this is kind of a, like a more top funnel tool where you're really kind of pushing out awareness.

You're promoting, you're paying for that. You don't own your audience there. You can't export it. You can't really message directly to it. So it's, it's more of kind of an awareness building. Maybe you're gaining some audience over there where an, uh, an owned app fits in is like really middle, low portion.

And even like Uh, potentially like very low, like lifetime value portion. And I'll kind of break out what I mean by that is middle, you own the audience. So you're sending direct messages out to people, um, and getting them interested in events, offers, promos that you're running, like low purchase portion of the funnel, cause you can actually push people to buy stuff.

Maybe you've got a loyalty. Program subscription. That's part of that. Maybe you have an e commerce component that's built into this thing. And the loyalty piece is actually part of what that lifetime value repeat business portion of this app is too, is that you're kind of getting people to buy from you again.

Once they sign up, you're giving them loyalty points to bring them back in. You're pushing them messages to bring them back into the tap room to sell your e commerce products, to buy your subscription, so on and so forth. Cause. I think ultimately where I'm landing on the app and where I'm seeing it now that, you know, you've, you've been so cool.

You're just been like, Chris, think about, think about, think about, and I've been like, I don't know about this, but there's really a lot of potential to communicate directly with your audience in the, in the very, in the most influential parts of the funnel, which is like, Middle, low, and then lifetime value.

It's a long winded answer of this, but that's where I, and one more thing I'll throw in here just to add context is like, meta ads, social media ads, uh, website, some of that like SEO stuff is really, again, top funnel advertising stuff. The app really is once you're, once you've made connection and you need to facilitate that relationship, that is where that fits.

So, what do you think? Am I, am I hitting that right? You think that's the, The spot. 

[00:19:33] Ross: No, I think you're exactly right. I mean, you know, um, where we add value, someone's not going to come into your brewery because they, you know, because you have an app that you gotta, you gotta bring them in some other way, but once you get them, um, the app becomes such a great tool for you to keep them engaged.

Right. Um, and it's because you have that direct relationship with the customer. You know, when someone downloads their app, they, they basically opt, you know, they have the option to opt in for push messages. When they do, you can send them something. It's got your brand right there, uh, on it. And, um, you know, I love it's the, the app is really like, honestly, an extension of your brand.

Um, and I love some of the things that, uh, that our breweries are using, you know, like some of the ways that they use their app and the messages that they send, you can almost hear their voice coming through, um, with the messages that they send, you know, like, so Pike's Peak. Uh, for example, has they sent out a message and said, Hey, you looking for an excuse to drink today?

This is it. Come on into the tablet, right? You know, like so that that personality just comes through in that message, right? And um, And so it's it's it's I, you know, I love it. It's a great and that that for the people who have downloaded that app That's perfect, right? Like they just that's the that's the type of thing that their guests want to get Want to hear, want to see, and, uh, is going to bring them back to the tap room.

So, um, so no, I think you're, you're exactly right in terms of the, the, the, the hierarchy of brewery craft brewery marketing and where this fits. Yeah. It's a direct communication tool with your customers. Um, I think the closest kind of like analogy, honestly, it's like, um, text messages and text message marketing, but it's not as invasive.

Um, I kind of get the impression that it's not, not as invasive and our customers kind of feel the same way. You know, I get a push or I get a text message. It's like, that's feels really personal, really personal. And kind of like, why am I getting this? But with a push message, you know, that is something I can control.

Um, and it's going to come through with the brand of the brewery and it's going to be, you know, like, uh, that personality from the brewery comes through with it. 

[00:21:46] Chris: And man, we are so starving for direct lines of communication with our customers. So much so that like so much effort gets put into doing organic social media really well, and with good reason.

There's a lot of reasons why you want to have good organic social media. But at the core of why we do that is because we want to get that message in front of more people. And what the app and things like SMS and email solve that problem. And we just forget about them. It's like, this is, you literally can get right in front one to one with someone, um, where you just can't do that in some other channels.

And there's, there's certainly benefit to that also, like, Um, yeah, I see that the benefit of branding, like I think I met, I forget the name of the brewery. You would know, like they have a game in their app where people can go and like play like an arcade game or something like that. They've built into this thing, which is funny.

Yeah, 

[00:22:36] Ross: no, you're talking about eight bit and that's perfect for them. Right. Because, um, they're a video game themed brewery. Um, and so for them to have that, to have put that into their app is just like perfect and on brand, right. It's just a perfect extension of, you know, Of the culture they've got there.

[00:22:54] Chris: And so, so lots of benefit here. And, um, let me, let's talk nuts and bolts here too. So like, because if any business, I mean, anybody business person listening is like, okay, great. Sounds cool. I like it. But like. What's it cost me, you know, and, and that's where I've been really hesitant with apps in the past too, is that it's like, yeah, there's a lot of benefits, but like, damn, there is a high price tag to get this thing developed.

Usually. So my question to you is how much does this really cost to, to make something like this, uh, for breweries these days? 

[00:23:26] Ross: No, I, you know, I, I appreciate the question. I love it. Um, I just, so I like to, to put this in context, um, just because, uh, what I don't want you to do is go build your own app. Uh, cause we want to, we want you to do it, but also because it's going to be really, really expensive.

Um, and anytime you want to change, uh, anything in that app, there's going to be even, it's going to get even more expensive over time. So that initial kind of like, um, Uh, that initial cost is just going to grow over time. And so. Maintenance 

[00:23:59] Chris: is, is disgusting because you have to have some developer that knows the coding language, all these things, and they're coming to premium.

So I know exactly what you're talking about. 

[00:24:07] Ross: Yeah, exactly. And you never think, you know, you get that first quote, Oh, here's what it is to build. But. Just, you gotta be, be careful of the ongoing costs. So just, um, if you're going that route, just be aware. Um, one of the things we're really proud of is that, um, we work with breweries of all sizes, um, from mom and pop to modern times.

Right. And, um, our mission honestly is to make. The benefits of having your own app easy to easy and affordable for anyone for the small for the small craft breweries who really need it. I'll tell you one one more quick story. I was sending out an email campaign and one of the people on my list. I didn't realize this was from Molson Coors and I got a very polite.

Uh, no, thank you. Molson Coors is not interested in your services. Uh, you go back and I printed that out and I put it on my wall because I don't, to be honest with you, we don't want to work with Molson Coors. That's not, uh, that's not our objective. So, um, so anyways, but in terms of pricing, uh, The, you know, the base price.

It's a very simple model to we're going to have a setup fee and a monthly fee on the monthly fee starts at 199. And I just want to say one other thing about that, because that can be putting that can be off putting to some of the smaller breweries that we work with. But, um, at this point, every single brewery that we have partnered with to launch an app and a program has made more money through their app within the first month.

And usually it's on launch day. Um, then it has cost them for the entire year. Um, so the track record is really strong. I think that there's, there's not many things you could do, um, or that I have found that are going to. Yield the ROI as quickly and as, you know, clearly as, um, something like this launching an app.

Maybe that's 

[00:25:58] Chris: a, maybe that's another way to, to phrase this money question is like, how, how, what are the, the ways that you can justify the costs in here? Like what, what are the ROI markers you're looking for and how does the app do that? Like what, how is it going to make you money ultimately? 

[00:26:15] Ross: Yeah. Yeah.

Um, well, there's a really, really clear, um, ROI, uh, number, which is, uh, how much, you know, are you, how many memberships have you sold through your app and what's your annual, uh, revenue, um, through the app, right? Because one of the things you can do in the app is you can set up, um, your membership to recur on a monthly or quarterly or an annual basis.

And so how much money are you transacting through the app? That's very, very direct. Um, There's a second, uh, less direct kind of metric that we look at, uh, which are the rewards that get redeemed, um, through your app, right? And so generally those rewards are going to represent a tap room visit. Um, and so, um, you are going to know your, you're going to have your own metrics in terms of what's your average check size, um, and what's a tap room visit worth to you if you're a craft brewery.

Um, and so just an example of this is, you know, One of the rewards that can be part of a program that we've launched, or that is part of some of the programs, is like a weekly beer discount. Um, and so how many of those get redeemed? That means that someone is coming in, they're opening a tab at your tap room, um, and then you can kind of do the math from there to see, you know, what's the ROI from the, from the number of added visits that we're getting through this, this app and this program and this reward.

Um, Another example is of, you know, rewards that are driving foot traffic and kind of ways to use the app is, um, uh, and this gets into the push messaging side of things too, this is another thing that we would look at pretty closely. Um, and you can target push messages as well. And so one exam, another example I like to give is that, um, breweries will oftentimes have a monthly pickup for like.

canned beer. Um, and if you're doing something like that, we've seen that if, if a, um, push message is sent out one week before the end of the month, then 70 percent of the people who get, who received that push message will come into the tap room in the last week and pick up their reward and start a tab as well.

So there's, those are kind of some of the things that we look at. And another one is just downloads, um, push messaging, opt in, um, generally what we're seeing is that, um, the download numbers are surprisingly high in a good way. Um, I'll give you an example. Um, uh, we had a launch with New England Brewing Company, uh, a couple of weeks back, uh, and they had, uh, They launched it in conjunction with their 22nd anniversary party, which is a great way to do it.

Um, and, uh, they had a thousand downloads, uh, in that weekend, which was great to see. Um, and their opt in push message opt in rates will vary, um, depending on kind of the way you set that up. Um, but what we're seeing is kind of on the low end, you'll be around 50 percent and on the high end, you'll be around 75.

So there's about a 25 percent range, depending on kind of what you're asking the customer, you know, giving to the customer when, um, when they download the app. And the reason for opting in, I 

[00:29:19] Chris: mean, I'm hearing multiple things here. I mean, I love the idea of the loyalty program and having it or like a, excuse me, the membership program and having a dollar tied to that.

Cause it's like, well, if we build that through the app, then we know that's one clear way. Right. And that's what opened my eyes with this. I remember our conversation at CBC. I was like, wow, that is huge. You know, and. And direct line, like we know ROI on app, very clear, 

[00:29:46] Ross: very 

[00:29:47] Chris: clear. And then all these other opportunities where it's like, we're going to push out this message with this offer.

How many of those got redeemed and what's the dollar back on that? And every POS systems got some kind of coupon punch that you can plug into there. And, uh, And monitor that and pull a report on those things. So, uh, super valuable across the board. And then you could back that up and say, okay, average dollars from app subscription folks is this, how much is it, is a subscriber worth to us?

And let's bring in new ones and so on and so forth. And again, man, this is like stuff. I'm like, okay, now I'm seeing the value here in the ways that we're going to. Drive ROI through this. And 

[00:30:24] Ross: yeah, congrats 

[00:30:25] Chris: to you for that. I mean, it's like, it's a hard racket. Um, uh, I know it's probably been challenging, but, uh, really neat stuff.

Um, 

[00:30:34] Ross: actually you said something that I really like and I wanted to touch on, which is, um, you know, the point of sale will have a lot of this information. And so, um, One of the things that, um, we have, we, you can do that. I'd like to kind of get more involved in or like, you know, kind of look at more closely, um, is, uh, when, when, um, when someone downloads the app, you're going to get a phone, a name, email, and phone number when they, you know, set up their account within the app.

Uh, and one of the things I'd love to do kind of longer term is, um, match that up, um, with some of the point of sale data, uh, with some of our customers that we have, so we can really get that, um, ROI, like your app member is worth this to you. Um, Uh, you know, versus someone who doesn't necessarily, um, who hasn't necessarily downloaded the app.

Um, I'd love to kind of work with 

[00:31:25] Chris: Harrison point to point of like customer with app versus without. 

[00:31:29] Ross: Yeah. I think that'd be really interesting and we should, we can do it. Um, we, uh, you know, we, we just had, you know, What needs to match up the data with the, uh, point of sale. 

[00:31:39] Chris: You need some data, dude. Some cool, some folks that are good at this spreadsheet stuff.

Right on. I mean, dude, that's what's, that's, what's wonderful about this is like, man, the sky's the limit with the data. And to come back to something I said originally, like. About owned channels. It's like you own this data. Good luck getting that kind of data out of meta or tick talk or anywhere else.

They just don't give it to you. Um, even when you're running ads, you get a lot more data if you run ads, but like, no way you're going to get one to one data like that. Um, so, uh, it's just super valuable. I mean, the next thing I think about is, is like. There's probably other app companies out there. There's developers on Upwork that'll do this stuff for you.

And this is really a question about tap wise is like, what's different. And you've alluded to some of these things about your system and your progress process with this, but like maybe come back and elaborate is what's different about tap wise and what sets you apart from other app companies or app developers out there.

[00:32:39] Ross: Yeah, yeah. No, good, good question. Um, I, and so I wanted to just say, like, when you think of just apps in general, um, our, our core to our DNA, uh, is that your customers are your customers, right? Uh, you touched on meta and kind of how it can be challenging to, um, get that information from meta and get your message out to your customers.

You know, to your customers, even if they're following you and, uh, you know, uh, consistently and instantly, um, you know, and, you know, we're not like an untapped or a meta. Um, and I think a really key part of our value proposition is that is. That we are there to to foster that direct relationship and for no other reason, uh, the brewery is our customer and your customers are your customers.

And we strongly believe in that. Um, it's and, uh, you know, I think that that's really key to our value proposition. The other thing is, um, you know, we touched on this earlier as well, but, um, We have invested heavily over many, many years, um, on the platform that we have, um, to help you build your app in an affordable way.

And we're really proud of that and making, you know, this technology, um, that is. that the big boys all know and are using, right? So like, you know, your Dunkin Donuts, your Starbucks, um, even your athletic brewing and things like that, that have, you know, these, these, uh, just tons of money, like they can go and they can do this, um, and they can reap the benefits of this.

Um, and where, what our mission is and what our, where I think we are, you know, Where we're most useful is to the non multimillion dollar corporations, um, that also should be using this and this technology and can benefit from it more, um, than those, you know, giant, uh, conglomerates can. And so that's kind of where I think, uh, we want to live.

Um, and the market we want to serve, um, you know, 

[00:34:45] Chris: you guys have done a great job of figuring out how to create the efficiencies within your company, to be able to offer that at a, at a price point, that is like much more digestible than you would ever think, you know, and, uh, You know, I, I know that's going to be situational depending on the client and all that stuff.

But like, from what I've seen from you, it's like, and what you've explained to me about it. And I encourage anybody listening, like, if you're curious, have a conversation with Ross, because it's like, um, really amazing what you've been able to do to make it work for, uh, a small and medium sized business where normally it would be totally unattainable, only attainable to like Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks and Pizza Hut and some of these.

And it's like, Oh wait, this technology can be accessible to me. And You know, again, a tip of the hat to you guys for making it that way. Um, which is rad. 

[00:35:37] Ross: I, uh, I, I have to, you know, I have to, you know, thank my, my developers here. The people who are smarter than me, uh, that have put the time into doing that over many years.

So, uh, so I'll, I'll give them a little pat on the back after this call here. 

[00:35:53] Chris: Well, I want to ask you a few fun questions to round it out, but before I do so, so just to put an end cap on the, the kind of tap wise stuff, uh, for those that are interested, where do they go, um, for. 

[00:36:08] Ross: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, tapwise.

com, T A P W Y, uh, S E, uh, dot com is, uh, the place to go. And, um, yeah, you can always, uh, email me too. It's just Ross at tapwise. com. Uh, happy to, uh, happy to, uh, talk directly as well. Um, if you, if to anyone who wants to. I love this stuff. 

[00:36:35] Chris: Yeah. I can, I can speak to that. Ross is pretty dope, dude. He's down to talk.

I'll put the links and stuff like that in the show notes and, and things too, but, um, okay. So. A couple more minutes. Let's, let's have fun. Let's back out from the business stuff. And I like asking these questions of my guests. Cause it's like, all right, we're craft beer people, but like, you know, uh, the folks that are in the industry, I want to ask like, okay, like, what are you excited about?

Um, personally, uh, product wise, right? Like in the beer world, the cider world, me distilling all this kind of craft stuff, beverage products or technology, or what, what, what kind of perks up yours? And like, that's interesting. I really liked that. Um, flavor or whatever, what kind of falls in that category for you?

[00:37:15] Ross: So, uh, so I'm, I'm an old man, um, and, uh, and I don't pretend to not be. Um, and so for me, actually, I've, I've been actually kind of excited about, uh, this is kind of, this is going to be a lame answer, but the, uh, the low ABV stuff that is, you know, that we're starting to see kind of. Rebound and come back out.

You know, I, for many, many years spent a lot of time drinking IPAs, uh, and forgetting, you know, uh, evenings. So for me, you know, I, I was, I was telling you, Chris, I got to go to the, uh, Savannah bananas game out in Las Vegas, your neck of the woods, uh, the other weekend. And what was great was, uh, it was so hot out there that I needed something light and easy, uh, and I could get it.

Um, again, which is, uh, and, and so, you know, honestly, I'm excited about that. Um, and I'll tell you, uh, I actually really like some of the hop waters. Uh, the 

[00:38:14] Chris: hop bars are sick right now. 

[00:38:17] Ross: Um, for whatever reason, that is just like, I, I'm chugging those, like, it's, you know, my job right now. 

[00:38:24] Chris: I I'm with you on that.

And like, I've been kind of like, all right, I'm, I'm not super in on the NAB. I know a lot of people like the NA craft stuff and a lot of breweries are doing a great job. Um, I've tasted some of it. It's fantastic stuff for me. I'm like, I don't know if I'd reach for that as a alternative, but a hop water, I am down on that as a alternative.

Uh, surprisingly. So I thought it'd be like, kind of like just way too hot, bomby stuff, but super refreshing. I was surprised. I don't know if you felt the same, but I was like, wow, this is super good. 

[00:38:55] Ross: I, I, I have. And like, it's, it's funny too, because, uh, you know, You're starting to see those options at all the different spots here in San Diego.

And I've gone, I've gone and I've done my taste test and I got to give a quick like props to Ruler Brewing Company. They have the best hop water that I've ever had, uh, hands down. And it's, and it's awesome. It's right across the street from where I work. I'll probably head over there after this and, uh, I'm going to 

[00:39:24] Chris: be there for the CDP thing in December.

Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, uh, so I've definitely got to try it. The ruler hop water. All right. 

[00:39:34] Ross: Yeah. Yeah. Super good on a hot day. 

[00:39:37] Chris: Yeah. That was going to be another question. I was like, it's hot out. What are you drinking during the summer? And I think your answer is probably a hop water or something like, yeah, 

[00:39:46] Ross: no doubt.

No doubt. It's been the, uh, the ruler hop water as of late. Uh, and, uh, it's funny they, so ruler added a, uh, a sandwich shop to their brewery recently and on Fridays they do a tri tip sandwich. 

[00:40:02] Chris: Oh. And, 

[00:40:03] Ross: uh, and so I'll just tell you like that's just my, that's my, my go to. Fridays we're 

[00:40:08] Chris: catching you at Realware.

Fridays 

[00:40:10] Ross: you'll get, you'll see me there for sure. No doubt. What about you and Vegas? I know, uh, you know, because CBC was out there recently and, uh, and kind of like what's the, it's got a, it's got an up and coming beer scene, no doubt with the, and so I'm curious kind of what's your. What you're doing this summer because it's, it's, it's hotter out there than it is here.

It's so flipping 

[00:40:32] Chris: hot, dude. I mean, we're like 110 this whole week. Um, and that's, that's just the, like the, I think they take the temp at like the airport and some of these higher buildings, like on the blacktop, it's even hotter. So, um, it's really tough for me to get around. Like if it's warm and hot outside, it's like, I don't want to drink the super thick 9 percent IPAs and the hazy, hazy, juicy stuff, um, or the dark beers and things.

So if I see, if I see a Uh, craft lager, a Vienna lager, a Kohl's on the menu. I'm like, there it is. That's the one crap Pilsner. I'm like all about those ones. Uh, and I'm a little, you know, I'm, I'm in my thirties now too. And I'm like, all right, I can be getting, you know, these big boozy IPAs and stuff. I'm like, I'll take the 5 percent and be fine.

If it's, if it's German too, I'm like, I love the German vibe of beer. So if it's like Kohl's German Pilsner, that kind of stuff, I'm all about it. Abel Baker actually just released a, uh, kind of like a mango cart alternative. It's a mango half, but like way less sweet and, uh, is bomb. I've been, I've been enjoying that lately.

[00:41:37] Ross: That's awesome. Yeah. Um, 

[00:41:42] Chris: well, um, you know, I've, I've super enjoyed talking to you again. You know, I highly encourage anybody even thinking about this app stuff. Go to tap wise. com link will be in the show notes, hit up Ross, Ross at tap wise. com, super cool dude. And, uh, again, I can't thank you enough for sharing your, your knowledge and wisdom with us.

Hopefully we can do this again sometime. 

[00:42:03] Ross: Absolutely. Chris, I appreciate you having me on. I look forward to the next one. Cheers, man.